Are there claims which were based on solid proofs, your denialist will tell you over and over again how they are free of guilt, instead the claimers are guilty. Truth is determined by how strongly you deny and how strongly you accuse the others. The 1915-events “Meds-Yeghern” is a famous case to exemplify this. However you try, solid deniers would tell you that the Armenians were the guilty party instead. Their ancestors could not possibly have made anything wrong — a fact which does not require a proof. They cannot separate themselves from their country/club/party/movement. Any “insult” is therefore personalized. Note that this way of defending is basically national/local — mere propaganda.

Fener defence is by no means different. Their leader could not possibly be wrong by any meaning of the word. If somebody was corrupt, it was definitely not them. Instead all the other teams are guilty. Sociogeny of Fener, as a team, resembles the sociogeny of Turkey: complete allegiance to the all-powerful leader. Fenerbahce resemble what they hate: AKP and Erdogan. An all-powerful leader with millions of followers. This explains how hard it is to infiltrate Fener (a conspiracy theory which most Fener fans believe) or even punish them. Here is a wonderful quote from an outline of “The Prince”:

“The Ottoman Empire, Machiavelli advises Lorenzo, would be difficult to conquer. A potential conqueror will not be invited into the country by any of the great nobles of the state, nor could he hope for a revolt by the ministers. Since they’re all slaves and dependents of their master, it is difficult to corrupt them, and even if they are corrupted, they can’t arouse the common people. Whoever attacks the Turks, therefore, must expect to find them united and must depend wholly upon his own forces, and not upon help from within the country.”

Fener fans are united in their denial in such a way that no European team can imagine. The Turkish media now writes testimonials on this so-called wonderful support without commenting on its ethical integrity.

My point: the case against Fener must be tried and if found guilty they must be punished. TFF cannot, did not, will not do that. UEFA has the means to do that (see my previous post). Contrary to what Ata says

“They have no jurisdiction over the case that only involved domestic matches. All these disiciplinary code article you mention only apply to UEFA competitions only. Love how the Turkish 2+2=5 thinking comes into play here.”

UEFA is able to punish Associations which do not follow the UEFA regulations even considering domestic matches. Article 9 of UEFA statutes cited above is very clear. Ata’s remark exemplifies yet another dimension of denialism.

Time will show who is right, who is wrong. Still no answers to my questions… They were. It very hard come on…

Hi Ata,

I was hoping to have some answers from you. Never mind, above you may find a link to Infantino’s remarks. This was only one of his remarks warning the federation. Just do a little research and you will find more warnings. We will see all together what UEFA will do in the coming days.

http://www.uefa.com/uefa/aboutuefa/news/newsid=1739226.html

Also, after reason those ethics committee reports, they say things which accuse clubs but offer up no evidence to back it up.

http://s14.directupload.net/images/120509/8fbfkhbu.pdf

In right column same report has changed and this time Aziz Yildirim is as innocent as a new born baby. One can see that two reports are 100% opposite to each other while the evidences remain the same across two reports.

Obviously Yildirim Demiroren has ordered to Ethics Committee to a write new report which there all traces of match fixing are removed.

Yildirim Demiroren and his TFF (Turkish Football Federation) has become a laundry to clean all corruption attributed to Fenerbahce and other teams. What else can be said where both TFF & Ethics Committee are deeply corrupted?

But there is a line between being an outright fanatic and and a supporter who loves sports.

Anyone who loves sports for it’s spirit, competitiveness and challenge should be against match fixing and cheating in sports. This should be an universal perspective of all.

So the question here is: have Fenerbahce and the other clubs that are indicted have committed these charges or not? Let’s leave all the other conspiracy theories and the probable reasons behind the investigation out. Have they committed these crimes?

I read a hell lot of documents, I have read testimonials, confessions and I am sorry but it is apparent. Anyone who reads these documents would come to the conclusion that there have been occasions where match fixing occurred beyond reasonable doubt. I would argue with anyone who claims otherwise, in any platform. Especially the two games; Fenerbahce vs IBB and Genclerbirligi vs Fenerbahce, it is so open even the so called Ethics Committee couldn’t cover it up.

Ata is especially critical of the government, Gulen movement and he is mentioning some trials such as Ergenekon, Balyoz that are highly political. As a Turkish citizen I am very disturbed with these as well. But to correlate Fenerbahce and these doesn’t seem right. Again the question here is whether all these accusations are fabricated or not?

Aziz Yildirim, the Fenerbahce president who is in the focus, would Ata vouch for him? He is one of the darkest figures ever in Turkish football. He has connections with leaders of organized crime, he has been intimidating media. He got the journalists who criticized him fired. He instructed gangsters to beat Fenerbahce General Assembly members who were opposing him. He even let his men beat his own goalkeeper Rustu Recber. He has been trying to manipulate Turkish football in a machiavellian way since becoming a president. I don’t want Aziz Yildirim and these kind of figures in sports, just like I protested against two Galatasaray presidents who appointed Adnan Sezgin.

And the other point about UEFA and FIFA cannot interfere. That is not true, we have what happened in Greece as an example before us. Also is TFF autonomous any more? Of course not. Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has been deciding who the president of TFF would be for the last several terms and according to Aziz Yildirim he had influence over the prime minister on that issue. First it was Hasan Dogan, when he passed away Mahmut Ozgener, than Mehmet Ali Aydinlar and finally Yildirim Demiroren. They were all appointed by Mr. Erdogan. He is the one behind the ludicrous idea that clubs should not be punished for the actions of executives. And Yildirim Demiroren did as he has ordered.

So UEFA and FIFA has every right to interfere in order to maintain the integrity of football. Why should they endanger European Football for Turkey? What successes do we have? What is the leverage we have over European football? If they succumb to politicians’ requests and match fixing in Turkey, how can they protect the game or even set an example for the other countries?

Here are some questions for all to answer:

1- Why has legislation 6222 been changed?
2- Why has Artcile 58 has been changed? Why Fenerbahce (Fenerbahce repeatedly announced that they were against this change) and Besiktas did not appeal like Galatasaray, Trabzonspor and Bursaspor so that this change could be canceled?
3- Why Ethical Committee’s decision has been changed?
4- Who are the members of PFDK and the TFF Arbitration Board?
5- Who is Ulker? What does Ulker means for Fenerbahce?
6- Why photos of banners against Gulen movement in mayday parades removed from Fenerbahce official website? Why Nihat Ozdemir apologized for these images?
7- Why the CAS lawsuit against UEFA and TFF has been recalled?
8- How come Aziz Yildirim has been acquitted by TFF Ethical Committee and Ilhan Eksioglu has been chosen as the scapegoat?

Once we answer all these questions, we will reach the truth. By the way when I started the petition for We Want Clean Football, I said “regardless of the colors”, because there were reports that Galatasaray was involved as well.

You wrote: “In our communal soul, there is a dark corner that is forever Don Cherry. Susanna Moodie wrote about it as one of her first impressions on coming to Canada in the 1830s.”

I know that Don Cherry is getting on in years, but I didn’t realize he was THAT old, lol!

On a serious note; another scandal has just broken in Italian soccer. I await your comments on it. I admire and appreciate your commitment to honesty and transparency in the sport of soccer. Keep up the good work and the faith and may God protect you.

I am not an expert on this, but Article 9 of UEFA Statutes reads:

“If, in the opinion of the Executive Committee, a Member Association has committed a serious breach of these Statutes or regulations or decisions made under them, the Executive Committee shall be entitled to suspend the membership of the Member Association with immediate effect.”

Also Article 5 of UEFA Disciplinary Regulations say:

“(1) Member associations and clubs, as well as their players, officials and members, shall conduct themselves according to the principles of loyalty, integrity and sportsmanship. (2) For example, a breach of these principles is committed by anyone: a) who engages in or attempts to engage in active or passive bribery and/or corruption.”

I think UEFA can invoke these, of course if they think the clubs are guilty and left unpunished by TFF.

Ata also wrote “You writing that the public is fed up with the atmosphere surrounding football in the country is complete BS. They still watch the sport, they will continue to watch the sport. All this talk about people cancelling their decoder subscriptions and such is BS. Its typical Turkish talk, they’re just full of hot air, and no action.”

They do not watch the sport now, they watch the ‘war’. Fener fans think the title would prove that they did not rig the matches last year. Others (Gala, Trabzon, etc.) feel that ‘unpunished’ Fener must be punished on the field (like unpunished -alleged- racist slur was ‘punished’ violently in Trabzon). It is not sports anymore (well, you may say in Turkey it never was which I do not completely disagree), and it will never be unless conscientious decisions are made.